From excerpts of John Kerry's remarks:"I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as President. Let there be no mistake: I will never hesitate to use force when it is required. Any attack will be met with a swift and certain response. I will never give any nation or international institution a veto over our national security. And I will build a stronger American military."This is an extraordinary statement for at least two reasons.First, that Kerry has made these assurances as an admission that the public's doubts about his credibility as commander-in-chief are deep and enduring. The promises of a few minutes cannot overcome a record of thirty years. When Kerry says he will build a stronger American military, it is like hearing Michael Moore promise that his next feature film will be pro-Bush. Both statements proceed from fixed records that impeach them even as they hit paper.Second, it is clear that even on this day when America is asking what would Kerry do about growing threats like that in Iran, and Kerry's answer is clear: "Any attack will be met with a swift and certain response." The Kerry Doctrine: Once we get clobbered, I'll try and figure out how to strike back.These lines --the most important of the speech by far-- which got huge applause, America must know it's choice is clear: Wait to get slammed again, perhaps with tens of thousands dead this time, or continue to take the war to the terrorists.

I was going to say, such potty mouths... looks like our little visitors have been listening to Mr. Cheney a bit much, you know DICK "we must restore civility to Washington" CHENEYand how about those records for Mr. Bush, who while being a war president, seems like he didn't even hang around for his national guard servicebut i forget, the most burning issue of all! those illegal immigrants. yeah, you better lock them there gates, pardners, and build dem dere walls, ye bubbas, cause dem's immigrants coming to git ya, ya heah?again, unless you're a native american, you have no room to talk. go back to europe and stop whiningboo hoo hoo hooalso, aren't you glad you're paying for Bill Clinton's tax cut? should make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

Thanks Jelly,Your pointed critique and words of wisdom have enlightened us all. Please revisit our website often, offer us more of your well-balanced heart felt vitriol, it does your like well. Fuck is such a powerful word. You scare me Jelly, I feel afraid, please stop.Sincerely, LMFOFLYCSFF!!

franklin writes:"also such whining observers should get a little more original about their whining and non-response so typical of the extreme right fringe"LMFAO!! What a fucking hypocrite he is! Go fuck yourself punk boy

You are delusional...Re: "oh jackprehiustoric migrations don't count"Says who? You, the be all and and all? Please...."the fact is the native americans didn't take this land from anyone else"Again, Says who? Provide your sources. You sure are a sanctimonious little twerp. Typical left winger."and the point, which seems to have eluded you, is that anyone whining about recent migrants needs to remember that they (the whiners) are migrants"Born here numb nuts. Not an illegal immigrant. No wonder you are so confused on this issue. "also such whining observers should get a little more original about their whining and non-response so typical of the extreme right fringe"Earth to franklin: Come on down to a border state and actually talk to the main stream Americans on the street about this issue. You will learn the truth. Something you are obviously unfamiliar with.

Mr franklin:Re:"so-called illegals give back to society a lot more than they take" Think so? Provide your sources or continue to be known as a liar and propagandist."but to me the point is moot: if they are illegal, so are you, unless of course, you're native american... are you?"Nice try. Yes, I am a native American. I was born and raised here in the USA. Were you?... Thanks for playing.

oh jackprehiustoric migrations don't countthanks for the prehistory lesson 101the fact is the native americans didn't take this land from anyone elseand the point, which seems to have eluded you, is that anyone whining about recent migrants needs to remember that they (the whiners) are migrants also such whining observers should get a little more original about their whining and non-response so typical of the extreme right fringe

Native/indigenous Americans (whom we used to call Indians -- just to help folks know whom we're talking about here) also immigrated to North America, from Asia. In this sense, there are no native Americans, just some groups who arrived here before other groups. Maybe we should just all pack up and head back to Africa, where we all originated.Check out the National Immigration Forum (xenophilic) or the Center for Immigration Studies (xenophobic) for some substance to back up your rhetoric.

To franklin:Again, I expected that kind of non-reply reply from you. You never disappoint.

observer:so-called illegals give back to society a lot more than they takebut to me the point is moot: if they are illegal, so are you, unless of course, you're native american... are you?

To franklin:I expected that kind of non-reply reply from you. You never disappoint. How about addressing the reality of my points regarding illegal aliens.

to thurston, i mean, observer --the so-called illegals are the ones who are picking your produce, washing your dishes, cleaning your laundry...besides your ancestors took the sw away from mexico (who in turn had taken it from the native americans) and the rest of the country you took away from native americans through genocideso when you go back to europe, then we can talk...

Re: "...person complaining about the draft and immigrants could really be labelled "left" as the "left" tends to be pro-immigrant..."And the left tends to turn a blind eye to the reality of Illegal Immigration and the huge impact on such things as the burden upon the medical facilities & profession (and your insurance, if you have it) in border states. C'mon down and see for yourself. Friday nights in the emergency room is a real hoot. Free family checkups from the nice gringos! T.B. checks, etc. for the illegals? Why, that would be racist now wouldn't it.

dear necktie bob,not sure that the person complaining about the draft and immigrants could really be labelled "left" as the "left" tends to be pro-immigrant; more likely a libertarianthen again, what good does it do to label anything, especially here where labels are used to smear and deflect from the actual argumentsi have enjoyed "edge"'s postings in that they appear to relfect his/her actual thinking and often have links to primary source material; and i certainly thought your posting here is good food for thoughthow terrible when the thoughts you have posted seem quaint, but in this age of rampant cynicism and manipulation, to me at least they appear "quaint." a nasty sign of the times, when simple common sense and observation appear "quaint."oh well, re-defeat bush in november

Now I heard everything! On one hand, you have the Right Wing complaining that the liberals are ushering in a socialist agenda. Now you got the left wing complaining the right wing will "institute the DRAFT, so all young unemployed persons (M & F) will be coerced into military service, (which is a Socialist structure) where all become "govt property", & lose their individual rights."I'm a registered Socialist and I can tell you that what you are describing is a fascist state, not a socialist one. The socialists aren't out to confiscate your property. What's your own personal property is yours to do with what you will. Socialists would like to see an end of private property, which is defined as property that a capitalist owns that can be used to turn a profit from the labor of others.You complain that "illegal aliens" are taking away your job, but the way I see it, they are your fellow workers just as much as any americans are. The real culprits are the capitalist bosses who are looking to satisfy their greed for money and power by employing people for less wages and benefits. If you were really into the union movement, why don't you instead recognize that all working class people worldwide are your fellow workers and insist they get treated the same as you would want your american fellow workers treated. What we need is international solidarity, not protectionism!You say " Once unions are gone, (outlawed by Repubs), the workers will have NO POWER, to barter for benefits & perks."Outlawed? Prior to the Fair Labor Standards Act, unions were in effect outlawed under the Sherman Act. And did that stop them? Did they cry out that they needed government protection against the bosses? No, they realized that no government had authority over their lives and organized as a class. They realized they had nothing to lose and everything to gain by breaking the law and organizing.And it looks as if the AFL policy of "co-operating" with the "bosses" is failing. You want something to blame for a weak union movement, look no further than the AFL and their minions who make sweetheart deals to line their pockets and not yours. Look at the UFCW. One of their Local Presidents makes 500,000 a year and the members make 8.00 dollars an hour. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss! If you want a stronger internation union movement that won't buckle under the demands of the bosses, join the Industrial Workers of the World!

In swirling mists of heavy fog, within this crystal ball I see a vision of the future, that awaits us all. I SEE A DIVERGENT AMERICA, if Bush is Elected. He will immediately institute the DRAFT, so all young unemployed persons (M & F) will be coerced into military service, (which is a Socialist structure) where all become "govt property", & lose their individual rights. They are simply pawns in Bush's "EverLasting War", with 50 nations, to last 2 or 3 generations. (With that agenda, you need a huge Army & military force). By encouraging Mexicans & illegal aliens to invade us by the millions, (like the barbarians at the gate of Rome) they will take all low-paying unskilled jobs, & then resort to crime & robbery, if they can't find enough easy jobs. Our welfare system is already swamped with 1/3 of Mexican immigrants getting on Welfare. We already suffer a LACK of good Jobs going into 2005, & new Tiajuana Arrivals will only exacerbate the problem. Where will ordinary citizens find a Job? If John Doe citizen goes in search of LOW-paying jobs, he is out of luck, since Juan Valdez grabbed them first. If he goes seeking HIGH-Paying jobs, - He would have to move to India or Brazil. Due to corporate America's plans for Outsourcing most good jobs, to avoid their taxes & paying a decent wage. So WHERE does John Doe find a job? Answer: All jobs are gone, & unemployment is rampant, & UNIONS no longer exist. The only alternative, is the military. Joining the military is giving away your rights, putting yourself at the mercy of any officer in rank above you, & They tell you what to wear, (a uniform), they tell you what to eat (MRE"s), and they tell you what to say, (Yes Sir, Yes Sir), AND they tell you when to sleep, what duties you will perform, and they have whole systems of punishment for you if you think for yourself or if you disobey. You may be shipped off at a moment's notice to a battlefield like Iraq, & you may have to exchange bullets with total strangers. Indoctrination will tell you what to think, & it is Big Brother all day. Watching your every move. ALL THIS FOR POVERTY INCOME. The luckier ones will beg at the feet of the wealthy Republicans for a job. Corporate crooks like CEO's of Enron & Halliburton will control all Wealth, & control Congress & foreign policy. Under Bush, few of the "crooks" will ever be punished. (Are you kidding, hurt their best contributors?) John & Jane Doe will humbly beg for whatever crumbs the greedy CEO's allow them. Salaries will be low, for WE will be competing with all the 3rd world countries for wages. Once unions are gone, (outlawed by Repubs), the workers will have NO POWER, to barter for benefits & perks. It will be dog eat dog, just trying to put Bread upon your table. In an instant, Bush & his Military Machine has made this USA into a nation of slaves. People in the military have NO rights & are subject to prison or court martial. They must risk their lives, at any time, for poverty pay. OTHER workers must work for crumbs, or be threatened that their job may disappear off to India. So all the Wealth & Power has been concentrated at the Top, while all the Jane & John Doe's are put into perpetual drudgery, & essential rights taken away. Forced to work for low poverty wages, IF THEY WANT TO KEEP THEIR JOB. Republicans in Congress, on April 8, refused to give US workers a minimum wage of $7 per hour, so they could afford to feed their kids. That is NET income of: $11,500 YR. (TRY TO LIVE ON THAT). But the greedy Republicans don't want Americans to have even this abysmally low salary, since THEY WANT to HOARD ALL their MONEY, (mostly made by crooked corporation deals, & by stock market manipulations, & by inheritance.) But they can't pay actual WORKERS a decent wage, & would rather give jobs to foreign workers, & invest in Iraqi oil & drugs, & arms smuggling. THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL. A BATTLE BETWEEN GOOD & EVIL. Massive corporate corruption, with ties to organized crime, & international cartels of arms & dope, (look up P-2, - & Carlysle Group). Look up how many oil wells are owned by the Bush family in Kuwait & Persian Gulf. (Zapata Offshore). LUST FOR GREED & POWER, no respect for tradition, or the Constitution, or even Nature itself. The REPUBLICAN PARTY has fallen into Evil Hands. They are full of phoney preachers, (like Jerry Falwell) & phoney healers, & exorcists. A CIRCUS of jesters & clowns to entertain the masses. And LOOT them of their money, of course. A good religious scam, now & then, always helps. Like PTL, for instance. (Tammy Faye Bakker) & one horribly "sick" preacher sells tapes saying the Clintons are witches & are working for the New World Order. On a Fundamentalist Baptist site. PROFITING by peddling this twisted rubbish. The Republicans have shown they will stop at nothing to gain & keep Power. They broke into Dem Hdqtrs (Watergate) to bug the offices & steal supplies, & videotape Dem Congressmen in attempts to blackmail them. They stole NATO supplies & smuggled dope to create money to fund a secret revolution in Nicaragua (IRAN-CONTRA), ---- they bribed Ayatollah to hold our American hostages for several extra weeks, just so Reagan could take the credit for their return. And win the election away from Carter. -- they told lies to get us into Iraq, so OIL could be siphoned out. -- They rigged the election of 2000, after bribing numerous officials in FLA. & using favors from Supreme Court nominees, they took over the Electoral Process, (& took away our Democracy). They have undermined our elections since Nixon, (36 yrs). Under Bush, the Patriot Act will be made permanent, so Big Brother can monitor your private records & internet useage, keep you under his gaze, all day & night. The Thought Police will be sure you never criticize your Commander in Thief, or there will be serious consequences. George can declare you to be a "terrorist", such as IF you are an environmentalist & believe in protecting wildlife, harp seals, or Nature. OR if you belong to the so-called "terrorist" organization of NEA, (teachers union). Like in all Fascist dictatorships, they always arrest the teachers & smart people, at the same time as they are imprisoning the opposition leaders. All who pose a "threat" to Big Brother (basically anybody with a Brain & Independent Thought) must be imprisoned, so this will become a commonplace under Bush. Lucky kids won't be required to go to school anymore. In fact, education is optional. The Govt will point to our Feuhrer, Geo Bush as an Example that "You don't gotta be smart to be President". And being Dumb serves the purposes of Republican leaders. Dumb people are the only ones who would still vote for Bush, IF Elections are ever going to be allowed. They will be abolished soon. (UPDATE: I hear right now, in July 2004 that people are talking about martial law, & "postponing" our elections ---- It has begun). The Future under George Bush will not resemble our America at all. A huge Tranformation will have taken place. Suppression of Freedom & Free Thought will be the first thing you notice, along with grim faces without HOPE. Our great heritage which lasted from ancient Athens, thru-out the last 2,200 yrs will lay in the mangled heap of broken dreams. Mankind will once again be held in bondage. The greatest achievement of man on earth will lay quivering in the grime of industrial waste & ashes of the military war machine. The world will wonder how our great civilization died, so suddenly & mysteriously in the 21st century? But no records will exist to show them that we let it die, by apathy, indifference, misinformation & no way to get the Truth out to the people before it was too late. Our media was controlled by govt agencies, following a right wing agenda. It was all orchestrated by massive forces motivated by greed. Basically a military coup de etat. I hate to think that we let our Democracy die, without a shout, without a cry, or even a whimper....

"[W]e must also assess Mr. Edwards on his own and by the grave question that has to be asked of any vice presidential nominee: Is he ready to assume the presidency? This is a question that, since Sept. 11, 2001, has become both more thinkable and more important -- and it is one that, when it comes to Mr. Edwards, we can't answer with a resounding affirmative."That's the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32542-2004Jul6.html), delivering the sobering news to the Democratic Party establishment that while it may yet come around to the Kerry-Senator Lightweight ticket, the editors know the score on John Edwards. Winning judgments against doctors isn't a qualifier to run the world.Bill Safire in the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/07/opinion/07SAFI.html) pours water on the idea that Edwards helps in the south --not with the National Journal's rating as the fourth most liberal member of the Senate. And the Washington Times Bill Sammon provides a nice summary of yesterday's GOP response (http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040707-122623-1954r.htm). Sammon uses the term "gravitas gap" which was bandied about, even as other writers up the stakes for Edwards by allowing as to how this smooth, telegenic plaintiffs' lawyer ought to clean Dick Cheney's clock in their fall debate. I suspect Edwards will score some fancy points, but an audience will see an experienced, sober war-time leader opposite the smartest kid in the high school class who has announced that he wants to run for president someday.The plaintiffs' lawyers have invested heavily in Edwards, so expect the business community to invest heavily in beating Edwards. The Washington Post's Jonathan Weisman (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32421-2004Jul6.html) provides the details on why business hates the tort bar's pickpockets, and the Wall Street Journal runs a story today on a conservative 527 group that has put together a pretty impressive package of ads blasting Kerry in recent weeks. The businesses of America that fear having a plaintiffs' lawyer overseeing regulatory operations and the U.S. Senate should invest heavily in Progress for America Voter Fund (http://www.pfavoterfund.com/).In fact, if you like to play hardball, you should scrape a few bucks together for Progress for America Voter Fund --a 527 you can love and which can go nose-to-nose with the MoveOn crazies.And there is this report (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124835,00.html) that Iranian intelligence agents carrying explosives have been arrested in Baghdad --which I haven't found anywhere in the big papers.Not surprising, given that the bigs have big headaches. Mickey Kaus (http://slate.msn.com/id/2103418/) blisters the Los Angeles Times today for a run of high-profile, serious errors, the most obvious of which Powerline (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007099.php) caught yesterday. John Carroll's arrogance is coming home to haunt him as Mickey, and many others, mock Carroll's own criticisms of pseudo journalist at Fox even as his own paper's reputation burns up in a wave of ideology driven pratfalls in Iraq.Here's a fun way to start your day. Go to www.latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/) and hit the "Print Edition" icon, followed by the "Inside 'A'" icon on the sidebar menu. This is a scroll of the features in the front section of the paper. Every day I scan the "For the Records" --the corrections the paper is running. Today, for example, there are dozen "oops," ranging from messing up the terms of a proposition on California's ballot, to quoting Shakespeare incorrectly in a Brando obit to Paul Anka's songwriting credits. These are the small signals of a sloppy paper that under Carroll's leadership has gone from hyper-partisan but accurate tip sheet for the Dems to hyper-partisan, sloppily edited and never fact-checked tip sheet for the Michael Moore left. All the while the suits at the tribune Company keep wondering how a monopoly newspaper can loose circulation and adverting revenue.Memo to Dennis FitzSimmons (http://www.tribune.com/about/bios/fitzsimons.html), Chairman, President, and CEO of the Tribune Company: There's an old Irish saying. "When everyone says you're drunk, you'd better sit down." Mr. Madigan, John Carroll and his staff are drunk. Mickey's a Dem, for goodness sake, and I am with the GOP. All we and other readers want is a paper that reports, not distorts. A fair newspaper with professional standards would zoom in circulation and advertising. Don't your shareholders deserve as much?

Huge news from the Financial Times (http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1087373567507): The official inquiry in the United Kingdom will confirm that Saddam did try to buy uranium from Niger. (Hat tip to Instapundit:http://instapundit.com/archives/016446.php) Somebody call Joe Wilson and break him the news that once a fool, always a fool.The center-left at the New Republic (http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040719&s=aaj071904), and the conspiracy-driven left represented by Joshua Micah Marshall (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_07_04.php#003133) are now embracing a wild speculation, one that resembles Madelaine Albright's nutty question to Morton Kondracke of a few months ago when she asked if the Bush Adminsitration had Osama locked up and ready for pre-election delivery to American authorities. This new version has the Pakistanis working to grab a "high value target" in time to step on John Kerry's acceptance speech. (As though that speech is going to set America marching again to the sounds of the sixties.) This is more evidence of "Michael Moore disease" spreading among the Dems. Marshall has fallen for wild theories before, but not the New Republic. They'll probably be speculating about the timing of the Financial Times story as well. Very weird. But not without precedent. The conspiracy-addicted left had the first George Bush secretly flying off to Paris to discourage the Iranians from releasing the American hostages in 1980. The fever swamp has always been there within the Democratic Party, at least since the Vietnam era. The problem is its encroachment today into the mainstream of the party. Responsible party leaders no longer tell the cranks to sit down and shut up. Could JFK even imagine the Democratic leader in the U.S. Senate hugging some nut, but Time Magazine reports this week that Tom Dacshle hugged Michael Moore at the conclusion of the D.C. premier of F9/11. Yeah, that happened. What a crack-up, and the patients don't even realize that they have the disease.

How is being the Swiss-educated son of a foreign service officer any worse (or better) than being the elite Northeast prep school-educated son of a US ambassador? News of Kerry's Jewish background has been out for a while. And he's been running an ad that starts off talking about being born in Colorado (though it doesn't say why the Kerry's were living in Colorado). Where have you been?

Person who posted as me in post #1035, you obviously have nothing worth saying, stop wasting our time.

Person who posted as me in post #1036, you obviously have nothing worth saying, stop wasting our time.

So it is John Edwards, (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/06/politics/campaign/06CND-KERR.html?hp) Senator Lightweight. Kerry's slippage in the polls dictated that he pick someone with flash and energy, but this choice won't wear well because the country knows it is wartime, and it knows that John Edwards is no more prepared to run a war than he is to run a small state or a large corporation. He spent four years in the Senate positioning himself to run for president and two years running. That's it. Aside from a talent for persuading juries to award money to injure people, John Edwards brings nothing to the debate except an ability to debate. This is a pre-9/11 choice by a presidential nominee running away from 9/11. Kerry's strategy is now fixed: Ignore the war unless asked, and downplay it when asked.Mike Erlandson is the chair of the Democratic Farm-Labor Party in Minnesota. He's every excited. He compares Edwards to Elvis. Great. Another serious American focusing on what it takes to be president when tens of thousands of Islamist fascists want to blow up the Americans they can't behead. Read John Mintz's assessment of the terror targets that the conventions provide in today's Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29636-2004Jul5.html) after reading the stories on Edwards' selection. The anti-terror professionals have to be shaking their head. John Kerry could have picked anyone with any smattering of national security credentials --even Hillary has more than Edwards-- and there would be an argument that the veep was ready to step into the office if necessary.So Kerry botches his first big decision by putting the major need --competence if disaster strikes-- in a lower priority than political needs.But did he even win there? Sure, the Democratic pros were in a swoon over Edwards, but all he won was South Carolina, and Tim Russert made him look like soft cheese last summer. Edwards is used to talking at people who can't ask questions back. Perhaps he'll hold his own, but he won't even carry Carolina for Kerry. It does give Hillary even more reason to sit back though, as Edwards now has a lead in 2008 as presumptive nominee. Don't allow the hoopla surrounding Edwards to obscure the Time Magazine article on John Kerry's childhood. Spooky stuff: "The Making of John Kerry." This has the feel of a cover story, but Michael Moore's on the cover in another blow to Democrats stuck with the largest albatross in American history hung around their collective necks. The Nancy Gibbs and James Carney piece must have folks inside the Kerry camp screaming at Time, as this piece seems like it began as a make-up for an earlier Time article that described Kerry as the "Swiss-educated son of a foreign service officer." Kerry gave an interview for it, as did many others close to him. "Two years when you're 11 or 12 does not a 'Swiss education make," huffs sister Diana Kerry. Well, yes it does. And the Kerry camp would have been better off leaving the childhood issue alone, because John Kerry's was one very odd upbringing.Read the piece carefully. I didn't know that John Kerry was half Jewish, because I didn't know that both of his paternal grandparents were Jewish, and apparently neither did Kerry until recently. I did know that his grandfather committed suicide --he shot himself and Kerry says he thought it had been an overdose-- but I didn't know that John Kerry was born in Colorado because his father had been sent there on account of tuberculosis. "He may be the Senator from Massachusetts, but he is not from Massachusetts," concludes Time. "He's not really from anywhere." So the man from nowhere selects a trial lawyer with no experience to assist him in the hunt for the world's most powerful job in the middle of a global conflict.I just don't see it happening. But I do foresee a campaign in which John Kerry will try anything to get elected in an extension of a career that has been about filling a pretty big void in his own psyche. Today that means picking a guy he doesn't really like for a job he cannot fill, and tomorrow it will means whatever his advisors say he's got to do to stay competitive. The Dems are stuck with an odd man in an urgent time. Bush's pollster Matthew Dowd says Kerry will establish a 15 point lead by the close of the campaign only to watch it diminish in the weeks thereafter. Kerry's not known for graciousness when the going gets tough. August will be interesting.

franklin,You have shown yourself once again as a fringe loon idiotThere is no help for you

Well, THAT Democrat hasn't consistently lied to the American people and herded them into a pointless war.How do you KNOW that there is no basis to the rumor McDermott alludes to? Note that McDermott said that it was a rumor UNLIKE Cheney who continues to insist that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, kind of like the Japanese guerrillas that emerged from the Pacific jungles in the 1950s thinking WWII was still on.If you're going to fault McDermott, then you must loathe Bush/Cheney... Do you?

Great headlines for this up to date news clip:"Desperate people do desperate things"or"Why democrats Suck"or"I'm with stupid"any comments on this story are appreciatedhttp://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39263

Great headlines for this up to date news clip:"Desperate people do desperate things"or"How to piss off your base"or"I'm with stupid"any comments on this story are appreciatedhttp://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040703/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_campaign_churches_8

"not you" : kudos to your posting the Mill citation. You forgot to include this tidbit from the same quote that you edited:"When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people." This seems to fit the current pointless bloodletting exercise in Iraq.Your "fun facts" (I'm glad you liked my earlier terminology) will take a while to read, so give me a few more days to point out your latest distortions.and for "edge", i've been meaning to ask, just what "course" are you suggesting Messrs. Bush et al are staying? Is it the :forget about the UN, we'll go at it alone" or the "we need the UN to clean up the mess we've made;" is it the "Old Europe and France are no longer necessary" or the "we love Europe and the French," is it "democracy in Iraq" or "let's high tail it out of there before anyone notices we're leaving"... which course, dear "edge" are you talking about. Tell you wehat, why don't YOU go to Iraq and stay the "course" and let anyone there who wants to come back, do so. Here's another one for you: a prediction. The current government will collapse within six months and all you-know-what will break loose. And our young will continue to bleed, just so that you and other very very confused people can hold your heads "proud" and proclaim you're "staying the course."

More fun facts for you to hide from:LIBERALISM THEN AND NOWTHEN:"Mahomet was an imposter, since he completely abolishes the freedom which is granted by that universal religion revealed by the natural and prophetic light, and which I have shown ought to be fully granted." Benedictus de Spinoza (1632-1677) "Letter 49: Spinoza to Isaac Orobio" (1671) http://home.earthlink.net/~tneff/let49.htm#TOP.NOW: ."And what was God thinking . . . when the Angel Gabriel was sent by God to reveal the Law to Moses? And what was God thinking . . . when the Angel Gabriel was sent by God to reveal the sacred Quran to the prophet Muhammad?" John Bryson Chane, "What were you thinking of God?" Sermon preached at Washington National Cathedral (12/25/03) http://www.edow.org/news/media/releases/2003/jbc_xmassermon.html ."I usually call myself these days a freelance monotheist. I draw nourishment from all three of the religions of Abraham… And I can not see in essence any one of these three faiths as superior to any of the others." Karen Armstrong, "Now with Bill Moyers" (3/1/02) http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_armstrong.html ."(The) panreligious perspective may prove especially important where our global civilization's responsibility for the earth is concerned." Al Gore, "Earth in the Balance - Ecology and the Human Spirit" (1992) http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/Gore7-99.html .THEN: ."It is a misfortune for human nature when a religion is granted by a conquerer. The Mahometan religion, which refers only to the sword, is more likely to motivate those with the same destructive spirit that founded it." Montesqieu (1689-1755) "The Spirit of Laws: Book XXIV, Chapter IV" (1748) http://www.constitution.org/cm/sol_24.htm#004 .NOW: ."In the aftermath of the cold war, the fall of the Soviet Union and the discrediting of communism have created a "threat vacuum" that has given rise to a search for new enemies. For some Americans the enemy …is (the) Islamic world… Islam and Muslim culture are portrayed as somehow peculiarly and inherently expansionist and prone to violence and warfare." John Esposito, "Political Islam: Beyond the Green Menace," Current History (1/94) http://www.arches.uga.edu/~godlas/espo.html ."The notion that Islam 'imposes itself by force and violence and has always been against Christianity' -- that is not true at all." Karen Armstrong, "Former nun's concern grows after Madrid," Chicago Tribune (4/24/04) http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001712.php ."(Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman is) dedicated to a free Egypt…I knew that there was a possibility that the government would cut me off from him for releasing this statement. But he told me he wanted this statement to get out to his people." Lynne Stewart, "The Terrorist's Lawyer," 60 Minutes (9/21/03) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/02/60minutes/main507885.shtml .THEN: ."Mohammed had not only religious doctrines descend from Heaven and placed in the Koran, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and scientific theories. The Gospels in contrast, speak only of the general relations of men to God and among themselves. Outside of that they teach nothing and oblige nothing to be believed. That alone, among a thousand other reasons, is enough to show that the first of these two religions cannot dominate for long in enlightened and democratic times, whereas the second is destined to reign in these centuries as in all others." Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859) "Democracy in America: Volume II, Chapter V" (1840) http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/ch1_05.htm.NOW: ."Neither Islam nor its culture is the major obstacle to political modernity." Robin Wright, "Islam and liberal democracy: Two visions of reformation," Journal of Democracy 7.2, (1996) http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/rwright.htm ."The heart of Islam beats with the heart of the American people." Karen Armstrong, "Interview," Religion and Ethics Newsweekly, Episode 602 (9/13/02) http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week602/armstrong.html ."The theoretical undertaking of synthesizing Islam and democracy is promising. …Muslims and non-Muslims alike should welcome the intellectual efforts, and yes, dreams, of Islamic democrats. …their aspirations represent the way of the future. …Islamic democrats are the best hope for the future of the Muslim world—and they deserve our admiration and our support." Noah Feldman, "The Best Hope," Boston Review (4-5/03) http://www.bostonreview.net/BR28.2/feldman.html .THEN: ."To pretend that Christianity was intended to stereotype existing forms of government and society, and protect them against change, is to reduce it to the level of Islamism or of Brahminism. It is precisely because Christianity has not done this, that it has been the religion of the progressive portion of mankind, and Islamism, Brahminism, etc. have been those of the stationary portions; or rather (for there is no such thing as a really stationary society) of the declining portions. There have been abundance of people, in all ages of Christianity, who tried to make it something of the same kind; to convert us into a sort of Christian Mussulmans, with the Bible for a Koran, prohibiting all improvement: and great has been their power, and many have had to sacrifice their lives in resisting them. But they have been resisted, and the resistance has made us what we are, and will yet make us what we are to be." John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) "The Subjection of Women: Chapter II" (1869) http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/m/m645s/chapter2.html NOW: "…ignorant and self-deceiving Arab intellectuals …have seen in the atrocities of 9/11 a sign that the Arab and Islamic worlds are somehow more diseased and more dysfunctional than any other, and that terrorism is a sign of a wider distortion that has occurred in any other culture." Edward Said, "The meaning of Rachel Corrie," Counterpunch (6/23/03) http://www.counterpunch.org/said06232003.html "People who talk about the need for Islam to have a reformation, ‘as we did’ in the 16th century, show a great ignorance of Islam and the Protestant Reformation. People who think there was something special about the Reformation are ignorant about world history." Karen Armstrong, "Interview," Religion and Ethics Newsweekly, Episode 602 (9/13/02) http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week602/armstrong.html "… (the Constitution) which although a secular document reflecting the wealthy, white, slaveholding, Anglophilic men who wrote it, is treated with the reverence accorded to scripture by any good fundamentalist anywhere." Edward Said, "American elections: System or farce?" Al-Ahram (12/00) http://www.mafhoum.com/press/amelect.htm THEN: "The matrimonial condition is not the same in reality in Mahometan and Christian countries. Here, the woman contracts with her husband nearly upon a principle of equality; there, marriage is impressed with a character of servitude: here, the woman preserves her liberty; there, at least among the more opulent, she is kept in a state of seclusion."Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832) "Of the Influence of Time and Place in Matters of Legislation: Chapter I" (1843) http://www.la.utexas.edu/research/poltheory/bentham/timeplace/timeplace.c01.html NOW: "There is no difference between Islam and human rights." Shirin Ebadi, "Iranian rights activist wins Nobel Nobel" CNN (10/10/03) http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/10/10/nobel.peace/ "Mohammed gave women rights of inheritance and divorce, that we wouldn’t have in the West until the 19th Century." Karen Armstrong, Now with Bill Moyers (4/9/04) http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript315_full.html "We will also be working against religious fundamentalism and its attack on women everywhere, including by Christian fundamentalist groups in the United States."Margaret Owen, "Women to fight ‘fundamentalism’," Reuters (4/8/04) http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,266549-1-9,00.html "…And part of the way that they are able to debunk Islam is to use over and over and over the women issue. So unless they intend to make equal pay for women and not quibble over Title Nine and all the other things they do in this country, I find that it's sort of the pot calling the kettle black." Lynne Stewart, "Lynne Stewart Interview" World War 3 Report, issue 40 (6/30/02) http://www.worldwar3report.com/40.html THEN: "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) "The Contest in America" (1862) http://www.gutenberg.net/etext04/conam10h.htmNOW: "War is always an acknowledgment of failure." Dominique de Villepin, "Villepin: 'War is acknowledgment of failure'" CNN (3/9/03) http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/07/villepin.transcript/ "It is clear that using force is not the answer to resolving the conflict with terrorists." Romano Prodi, "The Spanish response," Washington Post (3/16/04) http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A61727-2004Mar15?language=printer "At the same time, war (against the Taliban) would reinforce the worst elements in our own society-- the flag-wavers and bigots and militarists."Katha Pollitt, "Put out no flags," The Nation (9/20/01) http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011008&s=pollitt "A truce must be called with radical Islam." Patrick Seale, "Patrick Seale: Painful stings are unavoidable when a hornet's nest is stirred" Gulf News (3/19/04) http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/opinion.asp?ArticleID=114783 THEN: "… there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States..." George Orwell (1903-1950) "Notes on nationalism" (1945) http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/nationalism.html NOW: "…if the word "cowardly" is to be used, it might be more aptly applied to those who kill from beyond the range of retaliation, high in the sky, than to those willing to die themselves in order to kill others."Susan Sontag, "The talk of the town," The New Yorker (9/24/01) http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?010924ta_talk_wtc "The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military. I personally would like to see a million Mogadishus." Nicholas de Genova, "Professors Condemn War in Iraq At Teach-in," Columbia Spectator (3/27/03) http://www.columbiaspectator.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/05/03/4095f1f5eeacc?in_archive=1 "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not ‘insurgents’ or ‘terrorists’ or ‘The Enemy.’ They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow –and they will win"Michael Moore, "Heads Up…from Michael Moore" (4/14/04) http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2004-04-14 ANY QUESTIONS?

To -- FranklinRe -- "Knowing a bit about J.S. Mill, I doubt that the quote attributed to him is either genuine or in context. "Not You": put up or shut up: get the citation."The Quote:"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)The Source:"The Contest in America" (1862) http://www.gutenberg.net/etext04/conam10h.htmNow go look in a mirror

Why is John Kerry stonewalling the release of his wife's tax returns? (http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005291) The Wall Street Journal editorializes on the subject this morning. Since the Kerry campaign is proposing to raise tax rates on the upper middle class, most people would like to know whether the Kerry household uses tax-avoidance techniques to avoid paying its 'fair share,' the Journal notes. It also argues that it would be interesting to know whether she has given money to the Democratic 527 groups that pioneered a way around the campaign finance laws to support Mr. Kerry's campaign. I just want to know if she made more money from Halliburton than Dick Cheney, if she bailed out of Enron before its collapse, or if she dabbles in the reverse repurchase instruments that bankrupted Orange County, California a few years back. Is she in partnership with George Soros and does she shelter income off-shore. Heavily invested in gaming, liquor, or perhaps even the deadly tobacco companies? John Kerry is stonewalling because his fortune in benefiting from his wife's fortune surely contains the facts of a hundred hypocrisies. The media's indifference to this cover-up is number 101. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A19082-2004Jun30?language=printer) The Washington Post has written up the Bush-Cheney '04's outreach to church-goers, and the hand-wringing on the left is predictable. I think it is sinful of them to encourage pastors and churches to engage in partisan political activity and run the risk of losing their tax-exempt status," orates Steve Rosenthal, ceo of "America Coming Together. The Post missed the irony here: (http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/vote/27814.php) America Coming Together was recently in the news for its voter-registration efforts, which employed felons including sex offenders, to go door-to-door and obtain personal information on potential voters. The way-left group promised to stop sending criminals to your door. Now it is opining on the evils of registering church-goers, and lying in the process by suggesting voter registration drives in any way threaten tax-exempt status. Yeah, I'll worry what ACT has to say on the ethics of turning out the religious vote. (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/07/01/kerry_blasts_bush_for_military_call_ups?mode=PF) John Kerry sent former Air Force Chief of Staff Tony McPeak out to blast the Pentagon's call up of 5,600 members of the Individual Ready Reserve There are more than 110,000 former soldiers in the IRR, and the idea that tapping it is proof of arrogant mismanagement and poor planning at the civilian level is more proof that a vote for Kerry is a vote to cut-and-run in the war on terror, first in Iraq and then everywhere else. Kerry's criticism means he wouldn't use the IRR in the war, which has to mean he doesn't intend to fight it using all the tools available to the military. (20,000 soldiers were drawn from the IRR during the Gulf War.) John Kerry wants to be taken seriously as competent to defend the United States, but his campaign's every move telegraphs his intention to pursue head-in-the-sand isolationism and withdrawal from the front line of the war on terror. (http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20040701-122456-6466r) The Washington Times' Rowan Scarborough reports on Zarqawi's intention to kidnap a female soldier for use in horrifying the American public. Zarqawi knows --all the terrorists know-- that the only way they can win is by breaking the will of the American people to fight the battles in Iraq, Afghanistan, and across the globe. President Bush knows the battle for American resolve is being fought daily, but Kerry seems oblivious to this. Attacking every detail of the war management for political advantage weakens that resolve and may even inspire the enemy in new efforts to divide the American public. It would be refreshing to hear the Kerry camp denounce the terrorists at least as often as they denounce the Pentagon. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5335853/site/newsweek) Oh, Newsweek does a dance on Michael Moore It's a big dance floor, and its a very effective dance. (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39206) As written the other day, when you hear someone praising F911 in whole or part, you have proof positive that either a fool or a rogue has come close. The former cannot recognize malicious lies; the latter doesn't care provided they serve his ends. (http://www.startribune.com/stories/1576/4855537.html) Finally, the details are emerging on suspects arrested in the Twin Cities area, at least one of whom trained in an al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan. John Kerry doesn't like the Patriot Act. Perhaps some reporter should ask him if suspects like these are best left alone? John Kerry: Against fighting the war abroad with all available tools. Against fighting the war at home with all available tools. Consistently for retreat, from 1971 forward.